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We talk a lot about our frame of reference in fly fishing. Wherever you get into the game, a lot of your baseline is set by whatever is popular or widely accepted at that moment in time. My friend, Matt Mickey, recently argued that Gen X anglers are uniquely positioned, that this generation has experienced development and had a wide variety of influences that will never be duplicated.
We’ve learned through every form of media. We grew up in a time where good information was sparse, and most of us are largely self-taught. So it makes me wonder, will that kind of experience ever happen again? Meaning, fifty years from now, when the twenty-somethings are seventy-something, will they have the same depth of experience? Sure, they’ll have time on the water, but will they be missing some important things? And if, let’s say, modern anglers new to the game are missing some things, is it possible to go back and get them?
That’s what this episode is all about.
My friends, Trevor Smith and Matt Mickey join me for a great discussion.
Resources
READ: Troutbitten | How To Stay in the Fly Fishing Game for a Lifetime
READ: Troutbitten | Life On the Water
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Enjoy the day.
Domenick Swentosky
T R O U T B I T T E N
domenick@troutbitten.com
This one strikes me as a bit silly. You seem to be arguing that fly fishing is the only “sport” that hasn’t benefited from the increased distribution of information brought forth in the age of the internet. You also appear to be leaning on the same worn-out belief held by every generation before: that “kids these days” have it too easy and just don’t know how to work.
While the opening email composed by Matt was beautifully written, I don’t agree with it. Whether it’s fly fishing, baseball, mixed martial arts, golf, or curling, the knowledge passed down from previous generations is distilled and carried forward by today’s contemporary thought leaders. If a 16-year-old kid hasn’t spent countless hours poring over the work of Harvey or Humphreys, they’re likely still absorbing the most important lessons those legends taught through the teaching of people like you.
I agree with you. You don’t have to look very hard on Instagram or YouTube to find terrible information. But the same was true before the internet. You didn’t have to look far to find bad advice in American Angler, Fly Fisherman, or Fly Tyer magazine either. I’d bet you could name at least ten books that were widely circulated back in your day that contained information that was either useless or downright misleading.
As for the work ethic of Millennials and Gen Z — yes, some of them are utterly worthless. I’ve hired and fired my share. But there are outliers. In truth, hardworking people will always be the exception, not the rule. Let’s face it: people kind of suck. The overwhelming majority of those who pick up a fly rod will never put in the time to become proficient, let alone exceptional. It’s hard. It requires dedication, time, and a bit of obsession.
When someone is hooked, regardless of whether they are learning to play guitar, or fish the access to information today can only accelerate their progression.
Full Disclosure: I HATE EVERYONE BORN AFTER 1987
Honestly, Matt, we specifically mentioned that fly fishing is not the only sport, interest or activity like this. It’s life. We acknowledged that a couple times.
I think your summary jumps into the tropes that you expected to hear, and not what we talked about. There’s nothing in here, from me anyway, that says . . . “kids these days.” But we did wonder if the ease of gaining information really leads to the same kind of deep knowledge.
As for the rest of your argument, I think I agree. There’s always been good and bad information available.
That one I definitely do not agree with. In fact, that gets to a major point of this discussion. When it comes to fishing, ALL of this information — right now — might not anchor in as much as learning from experience and over time. We made the point in the podcast, that the lack of YouTube or any internet probably forced more self-taught discovery. Honestly, I think so much information confuses as much as it helps anglers these days.
Good stuff, buddy.
Dom
Hey brother,
I’ll give it another listen. I was enjoying a few beverages yesterday, so I probably missed a lot of the nuance.
I agree that self-taught discovery is important. I’ve had scores of young guys work for me who grew up in the YouTube age. The majority lack the critical thinking skills to work through a new problem if there isn’t a video that directly addresses it. Most immediately go to their supervisor and ask for help without trying to work through simple issues first.
That said, there are definitely guys who are curious enough to try and figure out how things work. I’ve also had guys in their late forties give up at the first sign of trouble. I think it’s more of a personality trait than a generational thing, which you and Trevor touched on to some extent.
Personally, I don’t spend much time exploring online videos or articles. I’ve consumed most of Humphreys’ work, a lot of Daniels’, and everything you’ve put out. One example of how powerful YouTube can be is your recent “9 Essential Skills” video series. If I had access to those four years ago, it would have saved me countless hours of standing in a river wondering if I had something resembling a clean drift.
I’m still early in my fishing journey and will be the first to admit that I suck—you’ve seen it. LOL. I also haven’t come up with a single original thought yet, but I see plenty of Gen X guys on the river who clearly have no idea what the hell they’re doing either.
Is too much information causing confusion? That’s a valid question in every aspect of life. You can find ten articles promoting any idea—and ten refuting it. How does anyone discern what’s true without dedicating their entire life to becoming a subject matter expert in everything from geopolitics to nutrition?
You’ve got a point. But like you’ve said yourself, “The river has a way of dealing with pretenders.”
Good stuff, keep them coming.
I should have added that Matt was a great guest. He was able to express himself in a very clear and concise manor. I don’t want it to sound like I am shitting on him. He did a great job. Have him on again. His voice was dreamy.
I agree with Matthew Wilson on this one. It was silly.
I’m a younger guy and I interact with a lot of fellow young fly fishermen. We still read the old books.
It feels like the older generations are hyperfixated on bashing the youth. Think of how the older generations called Rock music the work of the Devil. It’s just dumb.
End of my mini rant,
James
Nah, this was not about bashing youth. Give it another listen, and point to any such moments. It’s a sober look at how and when you acquire skills and knowledge. As I asked in the podcast, can we really go back and get that information? Maybe, but not in the same way as if you sit with it for a decade. Know what I mean?
I’m re-listening to it now,
There were definitely moments where it seems like you guys are dismissing the youth.
With that being said, there were some great points made. Maybe the whole podcast was a worry for the future of fly fishing. Will my generation have an explosion of new ideas? Will we ever get that real experience? I think in time our generation will be “due” for all that.
Give us time, Dom!
James
BTW please more night fishing videos, It’s been a while since the last one.
Freud described a syndrome he named “the narcissism of small differences.” Imagine a group of people so similar to each other that all they can see is minor differences, which they use to differentiate members of the group from each other. This syndrome perfectly describes this podcast: people of roughly the same age discussing those among them who are slightly, but trivially, younger. After listening to the podcast, I decided that it’s all tongue-in-cheek, an attempt, and a highly successful one at that, at subtle humor. What other explanation is there for a group of intelligent and experienced anglers not acknowledging what everyone knows, namely that the age differences they’re discussing are insignificant because the only anglers who know anything are those over 70?
Hi Alex,
The title is tongue in cheek. The topic and the discussion is mostly serious thought. I think you’ve missed this one with your summary. We spent more time here with questions than with certainty. We spent time thinking about those older as well. This is not just about younger generations. Age differences matter. Frame of reference matters. Knowledge is much more than knowing — it’s how these things have been experienced and very much how they were learned. We may have failed to convey the theory fully if you missed so much of it.
Cheers.
Dom
Hi Dom,
My post was so tongue-in-cheek that my cheek still smarts from all the pressure.
Ha. Cheers.
Dom, I caught a whiskey on a Cicada fly the other day and he was released to grow some more.
Hi Dom, I’m a “younger” fly fisherman. 27 years old been fly fishing the last 7 years. I wasn’t offended by this podcast and actually found it to be thought provoking. Anyways I thought it may be cool to chime in with point of view from a newer younger angler. For reference, I’m maybe in to the 2nd stage of the fly fishing evolution where I’m digging deeper and becoming more intentional about tactics and process but also numbers of fish are still a leading priority. I think the sheer amount of information available actually makes it more overwhelming for a new angler to dig into the weeds and learn a new tactic or refine an old one. I constantly find myself wondering which advice to follow how do I know what’s credible and can I realistically implement this technique? All of this makes me feel like it’s a shot in the dark and that I’m sacrificing a successful day on the water because I either consumed too much information or not the best information. So I’m definitely finding it harder to progress than what maybe an older fly fisherman would have that just had one book and good ol trial and error.
Just my thoughts, thanks and tight lines
Johnathon P.
Thanks for your perspective, Johnathon. I completely understand that. That’s a big part of the point in this episode. Sure, you have access to a whole world of information, but it can be overwhelming and confusing. I like your point too about not knowing what your should trust. Also, what matches up with what else? Matt’s argument, his thesis, is that Gen X had time to grown into all of this stuff, try it and assimilate it at a reasonable pace that was still accelerated, but not so fast that it was hard to keep track of things. I really do feel like we were right in that sweet spot.
Cheers.
Dom