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The leader should match the moment and match the angler. It should match the fly, the river and the wind conditions. Adjustments are necessary, and when they’re performed often enough they become intuitive.
An objective look at real goals for the dry fly, along with the true capabilities of the leader materials at hand, will lead anyone down the path toward a great leader formula for dry flies.
While many anglers might consider the leader as an afterthought, we believe the leader is the most consequential element in the system. The leader always matters, but it’s most important while trying to achieve dead drifts with a dry fly.
My good friend, Matt Grobe, joins me to discuss dry fly leader design. Like me, Matt looks for every opportunity to fool trout at the surface.
Resources
READ: Troutbitten | Category | Dry Fly Fishing
READ: Troutbitten | Dry Fly Fishing — The Forehand and Backhand Curve
VIDEO: Troutbitten | Casting Forehand and Backhand
READ: Troutbitten | The George Harvey Leader Design
VIDEO: Troutbitten | The George Harvey Dry Fly Leader — Design, adjustments and tips
READ: Troutbitten | That’s Not a Dead Drift
VIDEO: Troutbitten | Real Dead Drifts — Up Top and Underneath
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Season Twelve of the Troutbitten Podcast continues next week with episode four. So look for that in your Troutbitten podcast feed.
Fish hard, friends.
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Enjoy the day.
Domenick Swentosky
T R O U T B I T T E N
domenick@troutbitten.com
Hey Dom, thanks for the pod.
I am enjoying Grobe on this season.
When you say lagging curve, do you mean the fly line and the bulk of the leader is landing upstream of the fly thus giving the fly more slack drift time? Sorry if you answered this in the cast and I missed it. I had two toddlers screaming at me while I was listening. I will listen again today.
I listen to most of your podcasts 2-3 times. Does it help your numbers at all if I listen on different platforms? I typically just download and listen through Apple, but I could re-listen on Spotify and or YouTube.
Hi Matt.
Here ya go.
The Forehand and Backhand Curve
https://troutbitten.com/2020/08/02/dry-fly-fishing-the-forehand-and-backhand-curve/
Regarding stats:
Downloads are what is tracked most. Re-listening is tracked by Apple, although that doesn’t matter much to advertisers. Yes, if you download from three different sources, that will track as three downloads. Ha. The best way to support the podcast effort is to leave a great review and five starts, etc.
Cheers.
Dom
Got it! Thanks!
Next time I will look closer at the show notes. My bad. That shit must drive you nuts….
George Harvey developed his original dry fly leader formula about 40 years ago, and he refined it about 25 years ago. Given the advances in leader (pre-tippet) technology, maybe you could consider following this up with a podcast on the many other options for those of us who would prefer to keep it simpler, but equally effective as the GH design.
We now have the following to tapered leaders to choose from:
Furled (thread and mono) leaders
Finesse (low dia. butt) leaders
Flat butt leaders
Floating poly leaders
. . . and superior extrusion technology that produce?s an almost infinite variety of quality tapered leaders.
This would be the deep dive that dry fly leaders and slack line deliveries deserve.
It would be great to have an open forum on a topic that is deeply personal to dry fly anglers.
Rick, we have discussed all of that on on multiple podcasts through the years. In fact, other options are an ongoing conversation. I’ve written all of the above in multiple articles across Troutbitten, and I addressed much of what you mention in a twenty minute video on the Harvey leader.
https://troutbitten.com/2021/01/06/fly-fishing-leaders-design/
https://troutbitten.com/2023/08/03/video-the-george-harvey-dry-fly-leader-design-adjustment-and-fishing-tips/
There is nothing that performs like the Harvey leader design for dry flies. I dig into the details and TEST things constantly. I’ve fished every leader style you mentioned. None of them come close to the Harvey. (And I’ve addressed why in the other resources mentioned.)
Tying up a Harvey is not complicated. Or you can buy one and keep your life as simple as you like. NO LEADER will keep you from needing tippet and leader adaptations to match the fly (we covered that in this episode).
The Harvey is a slack leader design. That’s not old school. That’s smart school.
I encourage you to do your own research and publish your own findings in a video, podcast or an article.
I’ll remind that neither this podcast, nor the Troutbitten resource as a whole, aims to be comprehensive. This is not an encyclopedia of facts and options, because that would be boring, complicated and confusing. We are fishermen who have put in the time to develop preferences. We acknowledge over and again that there are other good ways to get great results.
Fish hard.
Dom
From the man himself:
https://www.flyfisherman.com/editorial/harveys-new-leader-formula/152361
Good stuff, Rick. I referred to that article, and I linked to it in, the article here at Troutbitten about the George Harvey Leader Design, also linked above for this podcast. It’s all here, my friend.
Perhaps a newbie question. How do you obtain the suggested length when tying? Say you want a 2 foot length. I’ll measure and tie the blood knot. Always too short or too long. Occasionally, pretty close. Basically, how do you get uniformity?
Fished the Harvey formulas for 54 years.
Harvey formulas I would guess started around 1978, Steve sold the leader kits when the shop was in Lamar.
This is for Mike F. on achieving accurate, or rather precise material lengths when tying your leader. I use (don’t laugh or beat me up) a Blood Knot tool. When I tie the leader I will take each section and measure out the required length plus three inches, and place the material 1/4″ short in the right side tool clip. That is, for a 24″ section, your material should measure 23.75″ to the right leg of the tool . Add the next diameter in the tool, spin the spindle 5 times and tie the knot. Your finished length should measure a perfect 24″ section. Repeat the process until your leader is complete. However, as Dom as stated on numerous occasions, each section can be plus or minus a bit. Best! Rich
Is the French guy you were talking about who had a leader design similar to the Harvey leader Rene Harrop?
Hi Kevin. No.
Cheers